Hang fire using musket caps?

188mule wrote:I've not had a hangfire using the CCI standard #11 caps with this Lyman GPR. If I do my part.

Am I looking for a fix to a problem that never really existed? I am for sure creating more problems for my self with a possibility of never seeing any gains.

Try RWS musket caps. Also check the vent hole in your nipple.

George_Kelley wrote:

188mule wrote:I've not had a hangfire using the CCI standard #11 caps with this Lyman GPR. If I do my part.

Am I looking for a fix to a problem that never really existed? I am for sure creating more problems for my self with a possibility of never seeing any gains.

Try RWS musket caps. Also check the vent hole in your nipple.

My musket caps are the reenactor caps. Probably the problem. Will check the hole.
I do have a tin of cci musket caps from the late 90s I found. They say extra strength. Will try them.

Found some RWS musket caps at a local gun store. $23 for 200. Bought 2 tins. Will fit my musket cap nipple to my Lyman GPR hammer see how it performs.

Found this somewhere.

I never used musket caps and have always used #11 caps. IMO hang fires are a result of the flame from the cap not being able to reach the main charge. This can be caused by a couple things. Oil or other contaminate between the flame and the charge, a blockage between flame and charge, or the charge not fully filling the breech.
I seem to recall an issue with the breech of the GPR having a burr in the breech area from the flash hole. A borescope could reveal if this was an issue.

I don't have problems with hangfires when using the cci number 11 caps. I did experience a hangfire every shot when I tried to switch to cci musket caps. Which I was told are reenactor caps, not reliable . Now I have the RWS caps, I'll see what happens. Main reason for trying the musket cap is for hunting in cold weather. More heat/gas and easier to handle

Also, the number 11 magnum caps have eluded me thus far.

188mule wrote:I don't have problems with hangfires when using the cci number 11 caps. I did experience a hangfire every shot when I tried to switch to cci musket caps. Which I was told are reenactor caps, not reliable . Now I have the RWS caps, I'll see what happens. Main reason for trying the musket cap is for hunting in cold weather. More heat/gas and easier to handle

I would almost bet the Hangfire problem every shot was the Reenactor Caps, some get away with them, but many don’t. The Reenactor Caps are a NO NO with Serious MuzzleLoader Shooters

Looking forward to your results with the new RWS Caps  

If by chance your Hangfire Problem continues, Try this: after each shot and you are Done swabbing the Bore (if you do this after each shot?) After you Swab the Bore, point the Barrel straight at the Ground and Pop 1 Cap off, You will see a small amount of Fouling/Crud trickle out, Now Dump your powder Charge in, With barrel pointed straight up TAP TAP TAP on the Wrist/Lock area of your Rifle This settles the Powder good under the Nipple, Your Rifle will fire religiously EVERYTIME if you follow this  Yep it is a waste of 1 Cap, But to me it’s worth knowing that my Rifle will go BANG IMMEDIATELY Everytime

Have no hang fire issues with any of my sidelocks if I do my part. Only when I switched to the CCI renactor musket craps. Didn't know they were garbage when I bought 500 of them. I swab between shots and tap the lock area after dropping the powder charge. Will try popping off a cap after swabbing the bore. I assume a fair amount of fouling is pushed down the barrel sticking near the breech

Idaholewis wrote:

188mule wrote:I don't have problems with hangfires when using the cci number 11 caps. I did experience a hangfire every shot when I tried to switch to cci musket caps. Which I was told are reenactor caps, not reliable . Now I have the RWS caps, I'll see what happens. Main reason for trying the musket cap is for hunting in cold weather. More heat/gas and easier to handle

I would almost bet the Hangfire problem every shot was the Reenactor Caps, some get away with them, but many don’t. The Reenactor Caps are a NO NO with Serious MuzzleLoader Shooters

Looking forward to your results with the new RWS Caps  

If by chance your Hangfire Problem continues, Try this: after each shot and you are Done swabbing the Bore (if you do this after each shot?) After you Swab the Bore, point the Barrel straight at the Ground and Pop 1 Cap off, You will see a small amount of Fouling/Crud trickle out, Now Dump your powder Charge in, With barrel pointed straight up TAP TAP TAP on the Wrist/Lock area of your Rifle This settles the Powder good under the Nipple, Your Rifle will fire religiously EVERYTIME if you follow this  Yep it is a waste of 1 Cap, But to me it’s worth knowing that my Rifle will go BANG IMMEDIATELY Everytime

My first time out with my TC Renegade I too had misfires. Told Lew about it and he gave the advice he mentioned above. Never had a misfire since.

I have had a few issues with hang fires, miss fires and failure to fire at all as well. Mine were from either operator error or using subs. When I cleaned the gun for the day I used to put them in the cabinet barrel up…… well big mistake all the stuff in the barrel ran down into the powder chamber and the next day even though I’d wipe the barrel out there was stuff in the chamber that the caps couldn’t push out and presto. I do like the musket caps when it’s cold out for easier handling too. As far as the subs go (real black is rare around here right now) I simply drilled the nipple out just a tiny bit and voila that issue is resolved too

I’m glad you found the issue 188mule

I had the same problem with the CCI musket caps in my Renegade and Hawken. I bought some Schuetzen musket caps and have had no problem. I mostly only use musket caps in the winter, cold fingers and
Small #11 caps do not mix. And if you drop them in the snow, they are gone!

Hmmm.....I see a lot of you are posting about musket caps being easier to handle in the cold because they are bigger. Why? I very rarely take my #11 caps from the tin directly to the nipple. I have 4 cappers for 11 caps and always have them filled when I go to the range and carry 2 with me when I'm hunting in case I lose one.
I've never used musket caps and have not found a reason to. #11 have always worked for me.

Bronko22000 wrote:Hmmm.....I see a lot of you are posting about musket caps being easier to handle in the cold because they are bigger.  Why?  I very rarely take my #11 caps from the tin directly to the nipple.  I have 4 cappers for 11 caps and always have them filled when I go to the range and carry 2 with me when I'm hunting in case I lose one.
I've never used musket caps and have not found a reason to.  #11 have always worked for me.

Your method is basically what I've been doing for years also. I will be using a musket cap capper. Not picking them from a tin. By using a musket cap I'll will be getting #11 magnum cap heat with twice the cc of gas. I am hoping it will help with ignition when its really frickin cold while using 100-120 grains of 2f.
I have had problems in really cold weather trying to remove a unfired cap from the nipple with frozen fingers. I use my knife to scrape it off. Not an easy task when your frozen. I think the musket caps will be easier to remove.

Where do you hunt where you're that cold?  I've hunted and fished up to about -20* but after that I'm not sure if I'd venture out.  Of course if I was in a colder climate and my body was acclimated to that weather that would be different.
I remember my cousin and I were trout fishing in -12*. It was so cold we had to switch to heavier leader line because it was getting too brittle. We couldn't catch and release because if we caught a fish it would freeze in half flop!

Bronko22000 wrote:Where do you hunt where you're that cold?  I've hunted and fished up to about -20* but after that I'm not sure if I'd venture out.  Of course if I was in a colder climate and my body was acclimated to that weather that would be different.
I remember my cousin and I were trout fishing in -12*. It was so cold we had to switch to heavier leader line because it was getting too brittle.  We couldn't catch and release because if we caught a fish it would freeze in half flop!  

I hunt with muzzle loader in North Dakota in December. Officially the 2nd coldest state in the U.S. behind Alaska. So I've hunted and worked my whole life in some of the coldest weather in the lower 48. So I know cold. Also I should mention north dakota is the 3rd windiest state in the U.S.. Put those two things together and it'll lock up your fingers and equipment in a minute when exposed. My trail cameras recorded -41* on my food plots last December at 6 a.m. day time temps were -25* to -30*. November 2017 temps went down to -28* during rifle season. I was in Manitoba that week hunting the Duck mountains. Sat 6 days in treestands dawn to dusk in -10* to -15*. One day it was -28* luckily no wind.

Ouch...that is cold. I was in Cavalier ND for a week a while ago in February. I can atest to your "chilly" weather!

check the flash hole in the musket nipple. i have received them new in the package without a hole! not to much a stretch to maybe it is smaller than it should be.

I've been using RWS musket caps for 2 years. No problems. Can't find 11s anywhere so I changed my nipple and keep on shootin.

Gunpa wrote:I've been using RWS musket caps for 2 years. No problems. Can't find 11s anywhere so I changed my nipple and keep on shootin.

That's another reason I'm trying the musket caps. Diversify your ignition options. I've purchased musket cap nipples for most of my rifles.
I've also switched my revolvers over to the slixshot nipples which use the #11 cci. Since the #10 cap has gone extinct. Got a lot of cci #11s.

deerstalkert wrote:check the flash hole in the musket nipple. i have received them new in the package without a hole! not to much a stretch to maybe it is smaller than it should be.

Agreed, I usually open mine up to a specific size with micro bits like Idaho Lewis has just for that reason. Seems like they’re almost always too small of a hole

Bronko22000 wrote:Ouch...that is cold.  I was in Cavalier ND for a week a while ago in February.  I can atest to your "chilly" weather!

Today April 15th. Just had a 3 day blizzard here in west central ND. 20* with 30-40 mph winds. Today 9 a.m. 12* luckily no wind, yet.

188mule wrote:

Bronko22000 wrote:Ouch...that is cold.  I was in Cavalier ND for a week a while ago in February.  I can atest to your "chilly" weather!

Today April 15th. Just had a 3 day blizzard here in west central ND. 20* with 30-40 mph winds. Today 9 a.m. 12* luckily no wind, yet.

Nice weather you’re having!

188mule wrote:I've not had a hangfire using the CCI standard #11 caps with this Lyman GPR. If I do my part.

Am I looking for a fix to a problem that never really existed? I am for sure creating more problems for my self with a possibility of never seeing any gains.

I think you answered your own question and solved your problem right here.
I use #11's and never had a problem as well, as long as I do my part. I use RWS caps as well as CCI mags.

Update on the muskett cap post. Been awhile I see. Super busy year. Well, I fit my musket nipple to my GPR. Tried to fix the side to side alignment issue by aligning the lock. This seemed to move the nipple closer to the center of the hammer. All caps tried in the workshop seemed to be firing perfectly. Got it to the range and the very first load the cap did not go off. So out with the musket nipple and back in with the #11. Ended up shooting very well that day, my hand cast RB with .18 patch and 120gr goex 2f produced a 2" group! Oh yeah, I also used a cci #11 cap.