Round ball moulding question

Today I had a chance to compare tumbled balls to as cast balls even though that was not what I started out to do.   I have a fairly new to me rifle new enough that I have not yet developed its best loads.   Its a 50 caliber with a tapered octagon barrel at 33" with its false muzzle.  Testing its twist I get  one half a turn on the cleaning rod for the barrel length so I assume about a 1/66" twist.
We just got in some new patch material in our shop and that is what I set out to test.   It is .016" pillow ticking same as a previous batch that have caused me much grief. The former batch seemed old and possible rotted and no amount of lube on the patch would keep them from burning through so consequently the rifle was not shooting good with that material.   The old batch was very stiff and would tare easily.  The new batch is soft and supple.
Anyway the new batch did not burn through and was shooting good.     It just so happened that I cast some .495" balls yesterday that had not yet been tumbled as well as some from the same mold that had been tumbled.
 After I had accomplished what I set out to do about the patch material I decided to shoot a couple groups each with the tumbled and un tumbled.
In the small amount of shooting I did what I observed with two groups each of each type of ball the tumbled balls beat out the un tumbled balls .   At 100 yards the un tumbled balls were going about 4" while the tumbled balls went about 2".   I am not going to make any claims of absolute superiority but just relating the results of a couple groups.
Another accomplishment today was that of finding a good shooting load for the rifle.   I still have to get a good rear target sight for it as right now the rear sight is a simple buckhorn.  I did put a globe front sight on it but that rear sight is not getting all the rifle has to offer in accuracy.    The load used today is with 70gn Kik FFG powder the tumbled .495" pure lead ball and the .016" new batch pillow ticking patch dampened with moose milk.  That load was putting the ball at 100 yards right where the sights were aimed because any shots that strayed out of the group were called before checking the target.

bullshop wrote:Today I had a chance to compare tumbled balls to as cast balls even though that was not what I started out to do.   I have a fairly new to me rifle new enough that I have not yet developed its best loads.   Its a 50 caliber with a tapered octagon barrel at 33" with its false muzzle.  Testing its twist I get  one half a turn on the cleaning rod for the barrel length so I assume about a 1/66" twist.
We just got in some new patch material in our shop and that is what I set out to test.   It is .016" pillow ticking same as a previous batch that have caused me much grief. The former batch seemed old and possible rotted and no amount of lube on the patch would keep them from burning through so consequently the rifle was not shooting good with that material.   The old batch was very stiff and would tare easily.  The new batch is soft and supple.
Anyway the new batch did not burn through and was shooting good.     It just so happened that I cast some .495" balls yesterday that had not yet been tumbled as well as some from the same mold that had been tumbled.
 After I had accomplished what I set out to do about the patch material I decided to shoot a couple groups each with the tumbled and un tumbled.
In the small amount of shooting I did what I observed with two groups each of each type of ball the tumbled balls beat out the un tumbled balls .   At 100 yards the un tumbled balls were going about 4" while the tumbled balls went about 2".   I am not going to make any claims of absolute superiority but just relating the results of a couple groups.
Another accomplishment today was that of finding a good shooting load for the rifle.   I still have to get a good rear target sight for it as right now the rear sight is a simple buckhorn.  I did put a globe front sight on it but that rear sight is not getting all the rifle has to offer in accuracy.    The load used today is with 70gn Kik FFG powder the tumbled .495" pure lead ball and the .016" new batch pillow ticking patch dampened with moose milk.  That load was putting the ball at 100 yards right where the sights were aimed because any shots that strayed out of the group were called before checking the target.

Good Stuff Dan, Thanks for sharing your results. I am looking forward to doing a Similiar test soon

Hey Lew,
How does the RB mold cast since Stacey removed the sprue ? I am pondering doing the same mod.

deerstalkert wrote:and all those pretty dimples go away when shoved down a barrel and smushed by the patch/rifling.
this has been resurrected in all of the last 5 generations of muzzleloaders and has never caught on.
in my case a plain old properly patched RB is more accurate than i can shoot it.
and if a golf ball and myself are involved, those behind me are in mortal danger!

Ds actually they really aren't all smushed down. There is enough left to actually make the ball fly more efficiently. But, it is a pain and a smooth RB does the job excellently!! I'll stick with you and the patched RB

BTW: I was out on a golf course one time with my brother-in-law. I lost every damned ball trying to shoot over that water!! Then I had a short hole and sent the ball sailing right over the fence. Decided I loved hiking and camping and hunting in the wilderness a helluva lot more!

LOL....I haven't golfed since I moved back to PA on 2004! They say that golf is a game you can never win - only get better. Its a lot like shooting. But in my case I too will stick with shooting because with golf, I ain't gettin any better!

Bronko22000 wrote:LOL....I haven't golfed since I moved back to PA on 2004!  They say that golf is a game you can never win - only get better.  Its a lot like shooting.  But in my case I too will stick with shooting because with golf, I ain't gettin any better!

I'm 73. However, if I ever do golf again, I'm going in a snorkel wet suit, because I'm getting those damned expensive balls back from the water trap. Awwww....yup I believe I will stick to hiking, camping, hunting.....much safer for the public.

HC wrote:Hey Lew,
How does the RB mold cast since Stacey removed the sprue ? I am pondering doing the same mod.

It casts a BEAUTIFUL Ball now Without that Mod, Lyman RB Molds are a Joke at best, Lyman Should be ashamed

For the person that said golf balls and muzzle loader balls are different. Apparently not too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z62AzvkdQ6g

bullshop wrote:For the person that said golf balls and muzzle loader balls are different.  Apparently not too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z62AzvkdQ6g

I want one! Now that’s a Roundball Gun

Buckskins&BlackPowder wrote:

3 miles?  Holy Moly!!

Buckskins&BlackPowder wrote:

I'll bet you could bowl a 300 game every time with that bad boy.
Looks like an interesting project.

I'll bet you could bowl a 300 game every time with that bad boy.
Looks like an interesting project.[/quote]

 I bet so to! That is a SERIOUS Rig!!

If I could use one of those golf ball guns I would take up golf. You could use just the cap without powder for putting.

Why make something that is so simple, into rocket science!!

mustang65 wrote:Why make something that is so simple, into rocket science!!

Because old friend that is the way. Like Lewis' signature that goes something like this: Why make something better when it can be made perfect? I agree. And besides this forum is supposed to be light hearted and entertaining as well as a place to learn and swap new ideas. Its not meant to be a place to be argumentive.

Bronko22000 wrote:

mustang65 wrote:Why make something that is so simple, into rocket science!!

Because old friend that is the way.  Like Lewis' signature that goes something like this: Why make something better when it can be made perfect?  I agree. And besides this forum is supposed to be light hearted and entertaining as well as a place to learn and swap new ideas. Its not meant to be a place to be argumentive.

Well, that would be a good idea, but your not really making it better. A ball is a ball...the only way to make it better is to make it aerodynamic, which means tapering for less drag....and other advantages.

True Mustang but the gist of this thread is tumbled vs untumbled balls. I can see where logically a tumbled ball would be more accurate. My reasoning is if the sprue is not perfectly on center, either top or bottom, it would cause for an erratic spin. Much like an out of balance tire. Secondly air hitting or dragging behind the ball would alter the flight path even if ever so slightly. It only seems logical. Now Jon loads his balls sprue up as do I. Now if the lead is soft enough and the patch tight enough loading the patched ball should mash the sprue protrusion down to where its aerodynamic effects are minimal. Still I intend to do an accuracy test myself when i get back home to my rifles.

Bronko22000 wrote:True Mustang but the gist of this thread is tumbled vs untumbled balls.  I can see where logically a tumbled ball would be more accurate.  My reasoning is if the sprue is not perfectly on center, either top or bottom, it would cause for an erratic spin. Much like an out of balance tire. Secondly air hitting or dragging behind the ball would alter the flight path even if ever so slightly.  It only seems logical.  Now Jon loads his balls sprue up as do I. Now if the lead is soft enough and the patch tight enough loading the patched ball should mash the sprue protrusion down to where its aerodynamic effects are minimal.  Still I  intend to do an accuracy test myself when i get back home to my rifles.

Jon's right - sprue up - he also said KIS.....I won't add the other S out of courtesy

I'll make my own decision once I get back up north. I have two .58s that only shoot round balls

Bronko22000 wrote:I'll make my own decision once I get back up north.  I have two .58s that only shoot round balls

Good idea

Bronko22000 wrote:I'll make my own decision once I get back up north.  I have two .58s that only shoot round balls

I keep contemplating a .58 Roundball Barrel/Rifle, the .58 RB is a SERIOUS Thumper

Lewis both mine, a caplock and flinter are really accurate

How much is a pinch of graphite? I intend to try using the vibratory tumbler method.