Today's so called mountain men.....LOLOLOL

I hear all these folks telling about how they hunt and use period cloths and attend all the rendezvous.
NO. 1.) Mountain men didn't wear loin cloths!
NO. 2.) Seems all these mountain men today go to the rendezvous as long as it's nice and warm. Seems that when there is some snow on the ground and cold outside, they are afraid to attend these rendezvous.

The reason I'm commenting is that the Santa Fe Trails Winter Survival Rendezvous has a total of 7, yes that's right 7 camps. Semms like the cold scared these so called mountain men off ....... "MEOW" "MEOW"

My Momma always told me if you can't say anything nice don't say nothin at all!
And the Bible says The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks evil against the law and judges the law.
I'd say those 7 people are braver than I am. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to stay in a tent or lean-to even with my Thinsulite and Gortex clothing for a few days in the cold let alone in traditional garb. But I bet they enjoyed it and had fun.

Bronko22000 wrote:My Momma always told me if you can't say anything nice don't say nothin at all!
And the Bible says The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks evil against the law and judges the law.
I'd say those 7 people are braver than I am.  I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to stay in a tent or lean-to even with my Thinsulite and Gortex clothing for a few days in the cold let alone in traditional garb. But I bet they enjoyed it and had fun.

Sorry, but I'm not a believer in religions. They're all man made. But I do believe in GOD. A being we cannot even begin to comprhend and who is not and never was of religion. many don't like me do to the fact that I say what's on my mind. Don't get offended, to each his own, that's freedom.

Mustang65,
One of my best friends is much like you on your belief except though he grew up in a church he doesn't believe at all. I however am a very strong believer in Christ Jesus as my Lord & Savior (one of those born-again types) I wasn't raised in a church whatsoever and though my parents never really spoke about God they were absolutely salt of the earth type people and lived a life much more pleasing to God than most professing Christians. My parents had unique childhoods as mom was raised in 2 churches her dad attended a Roman Catholic church where she could not understand anything they were saying and her mom attended a Presbyterian church so long story short she grew up confused and had nothing to do with church after she moved out. She passed away 7 years ago, but I whole heartedly believe I got through to her just hours from her leaving this world so I believe I will see her again. Dad on the other hand never went to church, but oddly enough his mom read the Bible in private every day of which he knew little about, but was influenced by a woman who never had a bad word come out of her mouth and worked until she was in her 80's. His dad however again very kind etc. I don't know the inner workings of all this and both families were a very keep to themselves family. Ok back to where I got off I wasn't raised in a church, but I could not help growing up that this world/nature etc. cried out there is a God! then somewhere in my early 20's some seeds were planted and one thing led to the other and I discovered the real truth. I'm not going to get into that as you did not ask, but I wouldn't trade anything for it! I'm not perfect in anyway shape or form and I sin every day, but repent every day and keep trying to be better although my salvation does not depend on my works Jesus paid the price in the past, present and future. I live the best life I can and have more fun than most can imagine. I have no fear of death therefore I do stuff that many won't. I totally understand how you are maybe turned off with church today and how so many of these preachers live. Many live in expensive and multiple homes, drive expensive cars, belong to multiple private golf clubs and fly around the world in the name of Jesus paid for by the average Joe sitting in the pew which is the opposite of how Jesus lived when here on earth. Then you have certain denominations changing what the Bible actually says based on some persons interpretation which is so wrong and then they add, change or delete big trouble those types! I call it like I see it! Yeah I attend a church when it works, but will NEVER be a member again...been down that road. I will attend, be helpful and give as God calls me, but to be in the back seat with a preacher steering the car with doors locked is not for me. I have the Bible and that is where the truth is! Just like some belong to a certain political party not me. I very much lean a certain direction, but I also agree with a few things the other side is known for and both sides are corrupt big time! I didn't hear you say this, but often you will hear someone say the Bible isn't true. The new testament is much about the fulfilling of what the old testament foretold and google all you want and you will find scientist of all types around the world are discovering what the Bible said is true or finding artifacts to prove certain things. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.
Mustang, I kind of agree with you on the Mountain man thing. I often think it is a time for people to play dress up and wear clothes they often wouldn't. That doesn't do much for me. I do like some of the stuff if it has a good function today, but you sure won't get me wearing white stockings and run around camp like some do all those are not mountain men those were other types in an earlier period I guess. I would however like to meet up with some of you in the mountains on a fall camp trip or hunt somewhere some time.

Anyway I hope I didn't make you mad as I said in the beginning "one of my best friends is". I'm no better than him he's an awesome person who I've learned so much from we just have a difference of opinion on things. I also don't try to turn him into something either. I will leave that up to God.

Big Sky Bryan wrote:Mustang65,
One of my best friends is much like you on your belief except though he grew up in a church he doesn't believe at all.  I however am a very strong believer in Christ Jesus as my Lord & Savior (one of those born-again types) I wasn't raised in a church whatsoever and though my parents never really spoke about God they were absolutely salt of the earth type people and lived a life much more pleasing to God than most professing Christians.  My parents had unique childhoods as mom was raised in 2 churches her dad attended a Roman Catholic church where she could not understand anything they were saying and her mom attended a Presbyterian church so long story short she grew up confused and had nothing to do with church after she moved out.  She passed away 7 years ago, but I whole heartedly believe I got through to her just hours from her leaving this world so I believe I will see her again.  Dad on the other hand never went to church, but oddly enough his mom read the Bible in private every day of which he knew little about, but was influenced by a woman who never had a bad word come out of her mouth and worked until she was in her 80's.  His dad however again very kind etc. I don't know the inner workings of all this and both families were a very keep to themselves family.  Ok back to where I got off I wasn't raised in a church, but I could not help growing up that this world/nature etc. cried out there is a God! then somewhere in my early 20's some seeds were planted and one thing led to the other and I discovered the real truth.  I'm not going to get into that as you did not ask, but I wouldn't trade anything for it!  I'm not perfect in anyway shape or form and I sin every day, but repent every day and keep trying to be better although my salvation does not depend on my works Jesus paid the price in the past, present and future.  I live the best life I can and have more fun than most can imagine.  I have no fear of death therefore I do stuff that many won't.  I totally understand how you are maybe turned off with church today and how so many of these preachers live.  Many live in expensive and multiple homes, drive expensive cars, belong to multiple private golf clubs and fly around the world in the name of Jesus paid for by the average Joe sitting in the pew which is the opposite of how Jesus lived when here on earth.  Then you have certain denominations changing what the Bible actually says based on some persons interpretation which is so wrong and then they add, change or delete big trouble those types!  I call it like I see it!  Yeah I attend a church when it works, but will NEVER be a member again...been down that road.  I will attend, be helpful and give as God calls me, but to be in the back seat with a preacher steering the car with doors locked is not for me.  I have the Bible and that is where the truth is!   Just like some belong to a certain political party not me.  I very much lean a certain direction, but I also agree with a few things the other side is known for and both sides are corrupt big time!  I didn't hear you say this, but often you will hear someone say the Bible isn't true.  The new testament is much about the fulfilling of what the old testament foretold and google all you want and you will find scientist of all types around the world are discovering what the Bible said is true or finding artifacts to prove certain things.  James 2:19 You believe that there is one God.  Good!  Even the demons believe that-and shudder.
Mustang, I kind of agree with you on the Mountain man thing.  I often think it is a time for people to play dress up and wear clothes they often wouldn't.  That doesn't do much for me.  I do like some of the stuff if it has a good function today, but you sure won't get me wearing white stockings and run around camp like some do all those are not mountain men those were other types in an earlier period I guess.  I would however like to meet up with some of you in the mountains on a fall camp trip or hunt somewhere some time.

Anyway I hope I didn't make you mad as I said in the beginning "one of my best friends is".   I'm no better than him he's an awesome person who I've learned so much from we just have a difference of opinion on things.  I also don't try to turn him into something either.  I will leave that up to God.        

Don't get me wrong about the guys and gals that wear the period clothing and attend the rendezvous and hunt that way. Much of that clothing and footwear is extremely more comfortable than my hunting boots. And much of the clothing is very much more warmer and comfortable than my damned Carhartts. I attend and visit the rendezvous as they are a lot of fun, and you can find some interesting items there, and make some really good friends. I just never got in to the clothing bit. Wish I had when I was younger though.

As far as religions and churches. Back in the day there were no churches and rules, just the law of GOD.
And as the Jews do, they believe in one GOD, and that is what I believe. As I said before, GOD was and never will be of religions. Religions do nothing more than create fear, hatred against others that have a different religion, etc. Every religion has changed their rules for salvation. The bible has been written by mankind, and changed to fit the times....the law of GOD cannot be changed.

Here is an interesting article:
Why God Hates Religion #1

Now I don't condemn anyone for their religion or beliefs. To each his/her own.

Well this thread has really gotten off course! Mustang I am sorry you do not believe that the Bible is God's Word.  But when you say there is only one God you are correct.  But although there is only on God He is 3 separate entities.  God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. This is one of the hardest thing for a person to digest.  Think of the trinity as water - ice, water, vapor and you will get the idea.  The same thing in different forms.
I didn't read all of your link but I got the idea what the author was talking about. Yes I can see why God hates religion. A lot of so called religions are made up of man made laws and rules and has nothing to do with the Word of God (the BIble).
But you must remember that Christianity is NOT a religion per say. It is a way of life. It is about the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Our Lord and Savior. He is our mediator - the link between believers and God. Jesus said "No one goes to the Father except through me."

Mustang I clicked on that link you shared, but will have to read it tonight it's a long one and I'm headed out of town for the day. Thanks! Have a great day!

Mustang, I just listened to that sermon if you call it that. I think I've heard Fred speak before and I can't argue it and I'm not, I like what he speaks it's the truth! He admits Jesus is the Savior he believes the Bible also. Good luck with keeping the law and commandments it's not possible as we already know. Jesus said himself in John 3 you must be born-again. In Acts 11: it was there that they were first called Christians. I also agree with Bronko, but the word trinity is not found in the Bible, God, the son Jesus and Holy Spirit is though. I won't argue with you as I have enjoyed this conversation. I'm not the foremost Bible expert, but when I see something wrong that does not line up with the word of God I know instantly and I don't mean you. No church no denomination will save you only God can do that. I've been to this certain church as a guest a few times with some elderly relatives and I always bring my Bible and when I would look at there church beliefs which most consider them a main stream Christian church I discover they changed the 10 commandments, still have 10 but got rid of # 2 so they could worship idols like a cross and divided another into two so they had 10. Everyone was clueless about it until I pointed it out even went on to Every Man an answer radio show and they didn't realize it either. I could go on and on, because it's that kind of stuff that is wrong! For probably 10 years or more you would find us at church 1-2 days a week and it was mostly good, but something happened....long story. Now we go to a different church, but I'd be a liar if I said regularly, but hope to again. I love it when you ask someone what religion are you when it's appropriate and they exclaim I'm a Catholic, I'm a this or I'm a that and all I can think is that's the club you belong at and none of that will save you. Often they really don't know the word of God, but are just paying members in a club where they know the preacher, but don't really know Jesus.

Now I ask myself why did I click on your Mountain Man post I didn't realize it was going to be like this. I'm blaming Bronko on this one. All I can say regardless of any of this I think we have a lot in common and would enjoy each others company around a campfire!

You can blame me all you want.  I will not deny my faith and will give testimony whenever I have an opportunity.   As a Christian my duty as a disciple is to spread the Good News. I too would enjoy sitting around with both of you and have a good conversation sipping on some fresh coffee.

Bronko22000 wrote:Well this thread has really gotten off course! Mustang I am sorry you do not believe that the Bible is God's Word.  But when you say there is only one God you are correct.  But although there is only on God He is 3 separate entities.  God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. This is one of the hardest thing for a person to digest.  Think of the trinity as water - ice, water, vapor and you will get the idea.  The same thing in different forms.
I didn't read all of your link but I got the idea what the author was talking about.  Yes I can see why God hates religion.  A lot of so called religions are made up of man made laws and rules and has nothing to do with the Word of God (the BIble).  
But you must remember that Christianity is NOT a religion per say.  It is a way of life. It is about the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Our Lord and Savior.  He is our mediator - the link between believers and God.  Jesus said "No one goes to the Father except through me."

Sorry, Buck, but the trinity was an invention of the Catholic religion.

When someone can tell me what religion my creator is, then we have the true religion. However, they are all man made. Religions are more like nationalities, fighting over who is the best, who is more powerful, who is richer, setting one nation against another.

Back in the day, men wrote rules to be over women, the world was written for men to rule only. Stories are stories, and they get blown extremely out of proportion from one generation to the next. There were no religions. There were believers(in GOD). And there were pagans.

The bible itself was written by man millennia after creation. I believe Jesus was a good man, and tried to do good deeds. Christianity again was a way of life developed by man....not God. Jesus was a Jew and told his followers to always keep the Passover. I also don't believe GOD would discriminate and put women as second class beings. It was a man's world then, therefore GOD was related to by mans writtings as only for men.

I would love to discuss this with you in a private conversation.  I can show you in the Bible where it shows of the trinity and the reason for the 3 entities as one God.

But back to the original thread. I would have loved to be living back in the mid-1800s. But to be honest I may or may not have wanted to stay in the Rockies through the winter! At least not without a cabin or hut of some kind (any place to get out of the wind and cold and thaw out!).
From what I understand those rendezvous where a place where the mtn men would get their supplies (sugar, flour, salt, bullets, powder, etc), do their trading and were wild times with a lot of fun and likely fights too, especially when alcohol was involved. LOL

Bronko22000 wrote:You can blame me all you want.  I will not deny my faith and will give testimony whenever I have an opportunity.   As a Christian my duty as a disciple is to spread the Good News. I too would enjoy sitting around with both of you and have a good conversation sipping on some fresh coffee.

Bronko, ain't no one gonna blame you for anything. It was an interesting conversation.
BTW: I was at the Santa Fe Trails Winter Survival Rendezvous at the Whittington Center, in Raton, NM. yesterday.
I brought a coffee container from home and Jonathan refiled it with camp coffee. I swear I could feel hair growing back on my head....LOL.
But, i have to admit, that was some good coffee, stout but good.

Bronko22000 wrote:But back to the original thread.  I would have loved to be living back in the mid-1800s. But to be honest I may or may not have wanted to stay in the Rockies through the winter! At least not without a cabin or hut of some kind (any place to get out of the wind and cold and thaw out!).
From what I understand those rendezvous where a place where the mtn men would get their supplies (sugar, flour, salt, bullets, powder, etc), do their trading and were wild times with a lot of fun and likely fights too, especially when alcohol was involved.  LOL

I don't know for sure, but I believe many of the mountain men did have small cabins for shelter, or lived with the Indians that had befriended them.
Temperatures up at the ongoing Santa Fe Trails Winter Survival Rendezvous had night time temps of -10 or lower at times + snow. It ends on Monday.

I get asked about these guys several times a year being a member in good standing. The American Mountain Men Association have strict rules that are followed to the letter of their laws.  Read On.

I have canoed from Ft. Morgan CO to Fort deChartre IL taking 28 days unsupported (no backup) with 4 other guys, done many encampments from 1955 until recently, figured at 80 I was getting to old to be sleeping on frozen ground.

by mustang65 Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:35 am

I hear all these folks telling about how they hunt and use period cloths and attend all the rendezvous.
NO. 1.) Mountain men didn't wear loin cloths!
NO. 2.) Seems all these mountain men today go to the rendezvous as long as it's nice and warm. Seems that when there is some snow on the ground and cold outside, they are afraid to attend these rendezvous.

NO 2.) Have to agree with you Stan that's why I stopped going to these events in 1980 (EVENTS is a better word for what's going on today, it's not a true period rendezvous by the days of old).

NO. 1.) Mountain men didn't wear loin cloths! - WRONG. Many of these guys lived with the tribes and took up wearing what was worn. Loin cloths and leggings were common seen in different artists work done in the day. This setup worked very well for those trapping (easy to remove get in and out of the water and then cover back up.

Not trying to brag or be a smart ass Stan, I've spent over 50 years of doing research on the subject.

Buck wrote:

by mustang65 Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:35 am

I hear all these folks telling about how they hunt and use period cloths and attend all the rendezvous.
NO. 1.) Mountain men didn't wear loin cloths!
NO. 2.) Seems all these mountain men today go to the rendezvous as long as it's nice and warm. Seems that when there is some snow on the ground and cold outside, they are afraid to attend these rendezvous.

NO 2.) Have to agree with you Stan that's why I stopped going to these events in 1980 (EVENTS is a better word for what's going on today, it's not a true period rendezvous by the days of old).

NO. 1.) Mountain men didn't wear loin cloths! - WRONG. Many of these guys lived with the tribes and took up wearing what was worn. Loin cloths and leggings were common seen in different artists work done in the day. This setup worked very well for those trapping (easy to remove get in and out of the water and then cover back up.

Not trying to brag or be a smart ass Stan, I've spent over 50 years of doing research on the subject.

Like I said before that was then, this is now. As far as period clothing and guns and accessories....no one really knows. Just like today, many that couldn't afford to keep up with fashion wore what they had or made.
As far as loin cloths today....that's funny....

As far as the strict rules and regulations, turns to many people away from the event.
BTW: A rendezvous, even back in the 1800's, is an event.

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying,

by mustang65 Today at 11:49 am
Like I said before that was then, this is now. As far as period clothing and guns and accessories....no one really knows. Just like today, many that couldn't afford to keep up with fashion wore what they had or made.

As far as loin cloths today....that's funny.... Today's so called mountain men....

As far as the strict rules and regulations, turns to many people away from the event.

BTW: A rendezvous, even back in the 1800's, is an event.

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying,

"As far as the strict rules and regulations, turns to many people away from the event."

Groups like the American Mountain Men, North American Frontier Men" and several others are not open enrollment, you have to be invited to attend. That keeps what the different groups are mainly interested in for a battle, re-enactment and so on.

A few of us found a breech cloth (loin cloth) beginning used was really comfortable. You can adjust them loose to help cool you down in hot weather and reserve (snug them up) in cold times. Easier to use for your body functions with not having to unbutton garments, etc.

I use the military style leggings which attaches to the belt leaving only a small area of the leg exposed. I use to do a bunch of activities with period water crafts (your wet much of the time). The leggings would be left off only the loin cloth used that would dry fast being in the sun (your legs would tan becoming a "coppertone" color in short order.

So I wonder;  Can we still trade in our squaw for a Hawken gun?  


What's she look like, can she cook ..... Buck

by Bronko22000 Today at 8:35 am
But back to the original thread. I would have loved to be living back in the mid-1800s. But to be honest I may or may not have wanted to stay in the Rockies through the winter!

I have to agree with you having done so at many of the AMM encampments. Sometimes trying to show how tough one is can really be stupid and you'll suffer for the rest of your life. I'm hard headed enough that some times staying on the ground in a snow storm or below zero weather was a real poor choice. Have suffered with hands and feet - frozen toes for years. I warn Stan's son Jonathan about this from time to time, "don't be a hero".

I hope Lewis doesn't get upset with us for getting off his subject line of shooting, testing and targets ....


.

While living with tribes maybe, but aint no way in hell, mountain men were tramping around the woods in those little skirts lol. Folks argue that beards were not an fashion, yet, we are to believe they trapped, rode horses in loin skirts? Not a chance. I haven't seen one original painting or sketch, stating they saw white men running around in them.

It was a fun rendezvous! A lot of prizes were won, a lot of black powder was burnt up. I won the long range match, hitting a target 191 yards away on my first shot. Next year, I have to buy at least 12 to 15lbs of powder for prizes, as the powder went first. I have so much powder right now, I actually left powder on the prize blanket and took a bag of patches instead.

One night, our first snow storm hit and dump 4 to 6 inches of snow on us. That night, it got down to Minus 9*

Buckskins&BlackPowder wrote:While living with tribes maybe, but aint no way in hell, mountain men were tramping around the woods in those little skirts lol. Folks argue that beards were not an fashion, yet, we are to believe they trapped, rode horses in loin skirts? Not a chance. I haven't seen one original painting or sketch, stating they saw white men running around in them.

One night, our first snow storm hit and dump 4 to 6 inches of snow on us. That night, it got down to Minus 9*

Period sketches show the shirts were long not "little shirts". These sketches show the shirt come to mid thigh or longer, look at the Longhunters and what they wear Jonathan - long in length shirts as well as the coats "mid thigh". The Longhunter was in the west long before the Mountainmen (riding horses), that's were you see the change of the length of clothing and style changes.

"Loin cloths" are seen in illustrations by Miller, Bodmer, Catlin and several other artists of the day. From what I can tell  worn by mountaineers that lived with the Native Americans from the surroundings. Have read many times in journals and other period records that beards were shaved off when living with tribes (Eastern US and Canada records). Some did so when trading with the tribes (It was felt those wearing beards were not trustworthy (with the beard hiding what they really looked like) see this mentioned several times in old journals and fort records. Those that wear beards today want to argue about this (trying to make a point just because they have one ....)

The best route to go is Research not hear say - Research - Research and again Research not trying to justify something just because you have one or wear something ....

Buck wrote:I get asked about these guys several times a year being a member in good standing. The American Mountain Men Association have strict rules that are followed to the letter of their laws.  Read On.

I have canoed from Ft. Morgan CO to Fort deChartre IL taking 28 days unsupported (no backup) with 4 other guys, done many encampments from 1955 until recently, figured at 80 I was getting to old to be sleeping on frozen ground.

Well those rules would knock out about 99% of the pretentious twats on LRF and Muzzleloading Forum.

If I lived in the states I'd be interested in joining up, aside from making my own clothing and riding horses I have pretty much done the remainder of those things anyway.